Curse

Epinephrine · Jul 15, 2005, 06:24 PM // 18:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaleban

Oh and for all those people who say the idea of a brawler/mystical kung-fu guy taking on a Dragon/plate-armored warrior/etc. is unrealistic, I say its unrealistic for ANY class to take on a Dragon or any of the weird creatures that ANet has come up with. I don't remember St. George or the Crusaders taking on Charr...

Yeah, that's why the argument isn't about "realism" but consistent physics and a logically consistent world. There's a difference.

Kaleban · Jul 15, 2005, 06:31 PM // 18:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Epinephrine

Yeah, that's why the argument isn't about "realism" but consistent physics and a logically consistent world. There's a difference.

So in what realm of "logical consistence" do you see a 200 lbs. man swinging a 6 lbs. longsword killing an ancient dragon?

Or "consistent physics" where you have people conjuring fireballs out of thin air and raising the dead?

You're right, there is a difference between realism and suspension of disbelief when it comes to fantasy games. The problem is you get too many "forum ninjas" who talk about the realism of katanas capable of slicing through a 302 Chevy engine block if its "water-edged-folded." These same people bring up erroneous statistics about medieval armors, force and penetration capabilities when they have only the most basic knowledge of physics, and none of metallurgy.

In fantasy terms, I can definitely see a kung-fu dude bitch-slapping a goblin around much easier than some 150 year old crotchety wizard somehow summoning a Baalrog from the ninth circle of Chaos.

Strong Fist · Jul 15, 2005, 06:38 PM // 18:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scol

I thought of that idea too.. h2h combat type character with like maybe some crippling effects or whatever. Also I was thinking of maybe a class that uses more "exotic" weaponry (katanas, staff, that freakin blade in crouching tiger..., things like that).

One class I'd be for is a BARD. Party buffer... maybe similar effect of a spirit (all allies in range get _____). Not sure what kind of weapons if anything they would use. I haven't quite thought it out yet.

I think your refering to the Tiger Sword in CTHD. The one that is curved at then, and you can loop another one on it and swing disarm, or hit someone with it.

Strong Fist · Jul 15, 2005, 06:39 PM // 18:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kaleban

So in what realm of "logical consistence" do you see a 200 lbs. man swinging a 6 lbs. longsword killing an ancient dragon?

Or "consistent physics" where you have people conjuring fireballs out of thin air and raising the dead?

You're right, there is a difference between realism and suspension of disbelief when it comes to fantasy games. The problem is you get too many "forum ninjas" who talk about the realism of katanas capable of slicing through a 302 Chevy engine block if its "water-edged-folded." These same people bring up erroneous statistics about medieval armors, force and penetration capabilities when they have only the most basic knowledge of physics, and none of metallurgy.

In fantasy terms, I can definitely see a kung-fu dude bitch-slapping a goblin around much easier than some 150 year old crotchety wizard somehow summoning a Baalrog from the ninth circle of Chaos.

It's a game bud, not real life.

Epinephrine · Jul 15, 2005, 06:44 PM // 18:44

I think that with magic involved you have to accept that magic is part of the way things work. Conjuring a fireball with magic may have a metaphysical explanation (you draw heat from all around you, etc...) but that's not where I have a problem. Swords can kill things that are based on bodies that can be cut/stabbed and that cease to function properly when cut/stabbed. A rhino is a big animal, but I have read of a bow hunter dropping one with a single arrow - 22 inches of penetration is enough to hit some vital organs, and a 6 foot blade can probably hit some important bits on a dragon, presuming they are animals. All I expect of magic is that it behave somewhat consistently - if you make fire with it it should act like fire, generating heat, consuming things should it ignite them, heat should radiate from objects heated and so on. If you are locked in a jail and decide to heat the bars till they melt using "magic" you should be prepared to be broiled - the heat radiated by the metal could kill you if you can only heat it slowly, and possibly even if you do it fast.

I also agree that it's annoying when people think that a sword should be able to cleave through a car, or that you could cut a man in chain armour in half with an axe. I am fine with some fantastic elements, that's what fantasy is about - the weapons wielded in this game are not proportioned in ways that we could realistically wield, but at least seem to behave consitently.

The Great Al · Jul 16, 2005, 12:40 PM // 12:40

that swift maneuvers spell seems a lot more elite than the one before it....it is a very good idea though....it just doesnt seem very believable that a kick or punch could do damage like that...id say that this couldnt be an unarmed profession, but rather the armor SERVES as the weapon (ie, the special gloves, boots, etc)

edit: try thinking up names that would be plausible and fitting to the game - i dont think Anet would use uppercut and suckerpunch

Rieselle · Jul 16, 2005, 01:24 PM // 13:24

The reason we're having this discussion is because ANet hasn't outlined the magical mechanics of the game world.

Looking at the warrior's attacks in the game, it seems like "magic" is mostly reserved for spells and incantations, rituals and the like. Stuff coming from mental study. The various warrior attacks are all "mundane" no chi-based kungfu or other asian media based notions of combat physics.

Having said that, I'd personally like to see a more energy-oriented warrior in the future, the ol' "sword saint" sort of thing. Wearing normal clothing instead of metal armor, and wielding a melee weapon without a shield. (either a big 2H weapon, or a katana sort of weapon, or a slim 1H weapon, but no shield.) Fights with melee techniques, but is heavily skill and control based.

So pretty much a melee fighter with ranger-level armor, 4 pips of energy regen, and lots of counterattack/interrupt/evade/critical hit in certain situations/combo attack melee skills.

For example: Parry - Stance, 5 energy, instant, 20sec recharge. For 5 secs, block the next attack skill used by the target. (regardless of their target). If you block an attack skill, this stance recharges instantly.

ManadartheHealer · Jul 16, 2005, 06:28 PM // 18:28

I personally like the idea. Although, creating the weapons for the class would be very tricky at best. But I think if you had gloves with 6-12 inch steel claws on them, that would be pretty good for tearing through people (speaking of unrealistic, how about female elementalist armour

).

We do need more melee classes, however. I personally would like to see a melee casting-class, although I don't know how that would work out. Another good class (if balanced correctly) would be an "assassin-type" class, although the assassin-brawler overlap may be a little too much

Edit: Actually, if the assassin had blow-darts it would be sweet. Although, it may end up too much like the ranger and using preparations

TheIrishman · Jul 17, 2005, 05:06 AM // 05:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Arthur Eld

The character is a cool idea, and pretty well thought out, but it's almost a worthless secondary class. Any spellcaster that secondaries to this class would become a front-line fighter, asking to die very quickly. If a warrior secondaries to this class, one or the other profession becomes completely worthless, as the warriors skills all depend on using a sword, hammer, axe, or shield. Same goes for the ranger, as the majority of their skills involve using a bow. Plus, if the armor doubles as the weapons, and non-primary brawler wouldn't be able to use the weapons of the class. That leaves the monk, which could work nicely, but could overpower other classes. Overall, good concept, layed-out and planned-out nicely, but I don't think it would work in Guild Wars.

I already said that secondary professions would upgrade thier primary classes bloves and boots to become weapons. Read my second post.

As for the two people who are critisizing the "realism" of my build:
A: Quite frankly, Guild Wars is NOT realistic. It's a fact. Spells, Dragons, and the dead walking amongst the living. You wouldn't see to much of that if you were to walk down the street today, and you definately wouldn't see that 1000 years ago. So whether or not a man with a pair of souped-upo gloves could beat the shit out of a man wearing Chainmail in real life is not the question here. It's whether or not this same man could beath the shit of of a man wearing chainmail in a video game.
B: "How could a persons punch light someone on fire?" In a freakin video game! This isn't Call of Duty, God Damn't! Tell me this: How the crap could someone light someone else on fire with tier MIND?! You can't (in real life)! I don't hear you complaining about that! And about 6 second knockdown body slams? Your character is also known as "Super-Dense-Man!" He looks to be a 6 foot, 180 pound man with a muscular build, but he actually weighs 10 times that amount, making his destructive capabilities to crush his foes with naught but his own body ten times as powerful as that of a normal human bieng!

This is an mmorpg. In case you couldn't tell by my flippant comments, I don't give a crap about realism. All that matters is if my character build will be Fair, Fun, and Original.
If you find something that contradicts this, please, post it.
If you want to argue over whether or not a person could really punch through solid steel, go drown in a well. You'll be more appreciated there.

Also: To the person who talked about an "Exotic" weapons class - I had the same idea! Whips, Chains, Scythes, Samurai Blades? Hell Yeah! Sign me up!

AceSnyp3r · Jul 17, 2005, 05:44 AM // 05:44

Very interesting idea. I'd take this over a warrior any day of the week, just for the style points

To be honest, I think this is a great idea, with some tweaks as necessary, I think it could fit into the game.

crazy diamond · Jul 17, 2005, 07:08 AM // 07:08

This quickly turned from a barely acceptable class idea into another 'wouldn't this be cool?!' disaster.

TheIrishman · Jul 30, 2005, 03:02 AM // 03:02

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazy diamond

This quickly turned from a barely acceptable class idea into another 'wouldn't this be cool?!' disaster.

Who died and made you king of the forums?

HINT: No one.

Legendary Battousai · Jul 30, 2005, 10:13 PM // 22:13

instead of making your armor a weapon, your weapons would attatch to your armor like holding a metal weight in your hand; in real life it would amplify the force of your punch tremendously allowing you to knock someone out with a single punch to the face. Also like knuckle spikes or things like that. Yet in order to balance the build, I would think that armor is more effective against this fighter's attacks. Like 30 armor halfs the damage instead of 40... or something like that. yet give them certain weapons that counteract that by giving slight armor penitration. this would workout the problems of having a secondary fighter.

silverstein · Jul 30, 2005, 10:35 PM // 22:35

Ok so the agility primary is not a good idea, i think you talked about how they would waste their time being a taxi driver, but Anet is already trying to stop droknar runs or any runs in general and having a class that can run even 10% faster than the others is very unbalanced. The good thing about guild wars is that any type of class can use any weapon, if you have a el/mo and you want to use a sword and a shield you can if you want, so making a class that alienates that wouldn't be a good idea. I'm not trashing it or anything, it's creative, but it is too unbalanced having more speed than anything else normally. I agree there should be another melee class though.

Shayul · Jul 30, 2005, 10:49 PM // 22:49

It looks as though the creator of this thread is trying put a 1st Edition D&D Monk into GuildWars without the background or justification of its powers. I personally don't care if a class such as this comes into existance in GuildWars, though if it does, I would think that Anet would have to nerf it...as 1st Edition D&D Monks were far, far too powerful.

Quite frankly...all I want to see are two-handed axes and swords...

*daydreams happily about his Warrior carrying around a gigantic two-handed Executioner's Axe of doom*

Timoz · Jul 31, 2005, 12:55 AM // 00:55

Without reading into it with so much detail as it seems a lil bit silly..

eh, basically a warrior without weapons? Slightly different attaks doing pretty much the same thing. um, boring! IMO, i agree a new class maybe should be made, it'd be fun and intersting for both pve and pvp alike but not a class like that god no.